Comments on: My beef with researching http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/ Resources for Biblical Scholars Fri, 09 May 2008 19:02:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: deinde.org » Blog Archive » My Beef with Researching, redux http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/#comment-6894 deinde.org » Blog Archive » My Beef with Researching, redux Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:54:39 +0000 http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/#comment-6894 [...] of Mark (please vote!)Accordance is, and will remain, the bombA list of biblical studies journalsMy beef with researchingGospel of Thomas hypertext interlinearBook Blurb: Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes Deinde Archives [...] […] of Mark (please vote!)Accordance is, and will remain, the bombA list of biblical studies journalsMy beef with researchingGospel of Thomas hypertext interlinearBook Blurb: Jesus Through Middle Eastern Eyes Deinde Archives […]

]]> By: Nick Kiger http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/#comment-6821 Nick Kiger Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:25:50 +0000 http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/#comment-6821 Danny, I say amen to that! How frustrating is it when you find the perfect article for your research, but having it right at your fingertips are unable to actually see the full-text! Danny,

I say amen to that! How frustrating is it when you find the perfect article for your research, but having it right at your fingertips are unable to actually see the full-text!

]]> By: tim bulkeley http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/#comment-6808 tim bulkeley Thu, 20 Mar 2008 00:11:34 +0000 http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/#comment-6808 Thanks, I'll explore it further. The journal is called Colloquium. It is indexed in: * Religion Index One: Periodicals * Index to Book Reviews in Religion * Religion Indexes * RIO/RIT/IBRR 1975- on CD-ROM * ATLA Religion Databases on CD-ROM * Australian Public Affairs Information Service * Ulrich’s International Periodicals Directory * Australasian Religion Index It is listed by the Australian Department of Education, Science and Training as a peer reviewed academic research journal. Though it is a print journal it has a website at http://colloquiumjournal.org/ Thanks, I’ll explore it further. The journal is called Colloquium. It is indexed in:

* Religion Index One: Periodicals
* Index to Book Reviews in Religion
* Religion Indexes
* RIO/RIT/IBRR 1975- on CD-ROM
* ATLA Religion Databases on CD-ROM
* Australian Public Affairs Information Service
* Ulrich’s International Periodicals Directory
* Australasian Religion Index

It is listed by the Australian Department of Education, Science and Training as a peer reviewed academic research journal.

Though it is a print journal it has a website at http://colloquiumjournal.org/

]]> By: Jim Pakala http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/#comment-6807 Jim Pakala Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:16:33 +0000 http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/#comment-6807 An OpenURL link resolver pretty much takes care of this issue for us. For the most part in biblical & theological studies full-text content is contained within aggregated databases. E-journals are few and DOIs are of limited use. Of course this could change. From crossref.org (the org. that manages the DOI system): DOIs point to the authoritative version of content on the publisher's website and to publisher-designated resources. Yet for the user working in an institutional context, it is often useful to be directed to other resources. For example, the institution may not subscribe to the e-journal itself but may still be able to offer the user access to the desired article through an aggregated database or through print holdings. In addition, the library may wish to provide a range of linking options beyond what is available at the publisher's website. In other words, DOIs work fine when you can go to the publisher Web site to access/buy content, but when you need to access content in aggregated databases subscribed to by your institution, you need an OpenURL link resolver. An OpenURL link resolver pretty much takes care of this issue for us.
For the most part in biblical & theological studies full-text content is contained within aggregated databases. E-journals are few and DOIs are of limited use. Of course this could change.
From crossref.org (the org. that manages the DOI system):
DOIs point to the authoritative version of content on the publisher’s website and to publisher-designated resources. Yet for the user working in an institutional context, it is often useful to be directed to other resources. For example, the institution may not subscribe to the e-journal itself but may still be able to offer the user access to the desired article through an aggregated database or through print holdings. In addition, the library may wish to provide a range of linking options beyond what is available at the publisher’s website.
In other words, DOIs work fine when you can go to the publisher Web site to access/buy content, but when you need to access content in aggregated databases subscribed to by your institution, you need an OpenURL link resolver.

]]> By: Mikail McIntosh-Doty http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/#comment-6806 Mikail McIntosh-Doty Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:58:34 +0000 http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/#comment-6806 Danny, While I would be delighted to have such access, the reality is that the technology and time needed to make it happen is not cost effective currently or in the near future for older items (most anything created before electronic records became normative). For classics (books, journal articles, blogs, etc.), the future you describe will happen because it is worth the effort. Further, Google and others are trying to make it happen for other stuff too with their scholar program. However, the reality is that older, small run, obscure items will always be found only in libraries (and some small specialty bookstores) on old dusty shelves that require student/scholar time and effort. Those of us in religious studies (I have been a such a student and now serve as a librarian in a theological library) have learned that old doesn't mean outdated or irrelevant, just old, ancient, and undiscovered. And what is old sometimes becomes new if we are good enough scholars to find it and use it. Soooo for the 4-6 page paper and many of the 10-20 page papers, online electronic resources found in DOI or PDF will do, but for those of us inspired to look further, to faithfully engage our rich and chaotic traditions, then some old fashioned pounding of the pavement or at least searching the stacks will probably be required. And the treasures found there are sometimes very precious indeed. Danny,
While I would be delighted to have such access, the reality is that the technology and time needed to make it happen is not cost effective currently or in the near future for older items (most anything created before electronic records became normative).

For classics (books, journal articles, blogs, etc.), the future you describe will happen because it is worth the effort. Further, Google and others are trying to make it happen for other stuff too with their scholar program.

However, the reality is that older, small run, obscure items will always be found only in libraries (and some small specialty bookstores) on old dusty shelves that require student/scholar time and effort.

Those of us in religious studies (I have been a such a student and now serve as a librarian in a theological library) have learned that old doesn’t mean outdated or irrelevant, just old, ancient, and undiscovered. And what is old sometimes becomes new if we are good enough scholars to find it and use it.

Soooo for the 4-6 page paper and many of the 10-20 page papers, online electronic resources found in DOI or PDF will do, but for those of us inspired to look further, to faithfully engage our rich and chaotic traditions, then some old fashioned pounding of the pavement or at least searching the stacks will probably be required. And the treasures found there are sometimes very precious indeed.

]]> By: Margot J. Lyon http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/#comment-6805 Margot J. Lyon Wed, 19 Mar 2008 15:08:08 +0000 http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/#comment-6805 March 19, 2008 Mr. Danny Zacharias c/o The Deinde Blog submitted electronically Dear Mr. Zacharias: I am writing to officially respond on behalf of the American Theological Library Association (ATLA) regarding recent postings regarding the ATLA Religion Database and DOI issues on your blog: http://www.deinde.org/blog/ To the best of our knowledge, we were not contacted by you before you posted these comments and then directly asked the readers to “nag and whine” to us. In fact, if you would have contacted us in advance, we would have told you that we recently published some information in our Feb. 2008 newsletter that directly addresses your concerns: Beginning in January 2008, ATLA’s Religion Database (RDB) will include any DOI (Digital Object Identifier) data that some journals are now using. The data will be coded in the MARC 21 024 tag, subfield a, with a subfield 2 code: doi as well. This may prove helpful to users who link to full text versions. This data is expected to appear in the summer 2008 data release. There are no plans at this time to add such data retrospectively. ATLA Newsletter, vol. 55 no. 2 (Feb. 2008), 14 In the future, I encourage you and your colleagues to contact us directly with any product questions in advance of any speculation. We pride ourselves on both the quality of our products and our responsiveness. Please contact me with any additional concerns or questions. Thanks for your cooperation. Kind regards, Margot Lyon, MSI Director of Business Development American Theological Library Association http://www.atla.com 300 SOUTH WACKER DRIVE STE 2100, CHICAGO, IL 60606 Toll Free 1-888-665-ATLA (North America) +1-312-454-5100 (Outside North America) Fax: +1-312-454-5505 e-mail: mlyon@atla.com March 19, 2008

Mr. Danny Zacharias
c/o The Deinde Blog
submitted electronically

Dear Mr. Zacharias:

I am writing to officially respond on behalf of the American Theological Library Association (ATLA) regarding recent postings regarding the ATLA Religion Database and DOI issues on your blog:

http://www.deinde.org/blog/

To the best of our knowledge, we were not contacted by you before you posted these comments and then directly asked the readers to “nag and whine” to us.

In fact, if you would have contacted us in advance, we would have told you that we recently published some information in our Feb. 2008 newsletter that directly addresses your concerns:

Beginning in January 2008, ATLA’s Religion Database (RDB) will include any DOI (Digital Object Identifier) data that some journals are now using. The data will be coded in the MARC 21 024 tag, subfield a, with a subfield 2 code: doi as well. This may prove helpful to users who link to full text versions. This data is expected to appear in the summer 2008 data release. There are no plans at this time to add such data retrospectively. ATLA Newsletter, vol. 55 no. 2 (Feb. 2008), 14

In the future, I encourage you and your colleagues to contact us directly with any product questions in advance of any speculation.

We pride ourselves on both the quality of our products and our responsiveness.

Please contact me with any additional concerns or questions.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Kind regards,
Margot Lyon, MSI
Director of Business Development
American Theological Library Association
http://www.atla.com
300 SOUTH WACKER DRIVE STE 2100, CHICAGO, IL 60606
Toll Free 1-888-665-ATLA (North America)
+1-312-454-5100 (Outside North America)
Fax: +1-312-454-5505
e-mail: mlyon@atla.com

]]> By: Danny Zacharias http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/#comment-6804 Danny Zacharias Wed, 19 Mar 2008 00:35:48 +0000 http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/#comment-6804 HI Tim, glad I convinced at least one person :-) DOI's cost a bit. Basically, an organization or publisher pays for the right to assign DOI's from crossref.org. Then those who assign DOI's are responsible for sending Crossref.org (an easy upload) the DOI = URL location. Tim, what journal are you talking about? Second, is it indexed by ATLA or any other indexing site? HI Tim, glad I convinced at least one person :-)

DOI’s cost a bit. Basically, an organization or publisher pays for the right to assign DOI’s from crossref.org. Then those who assign DOI’s are responsible for sending Crossref.org (an easy upload) the DOI = URL location.

Tim, what journal are you talking about? Second, is it indexed by ATLA or any other indexing site?

]]> By: tim bulkeley http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/#comment-6803 tim bulkeley Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:33:57 +0000 http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/#comment-6803 Danny, I am on the editorial team for a Journal (not primarily Biblical Studies, but general theological) we have begun making back issues available through Lulu. How in practice would we set about doing what you want. I am thoroughly convinced by what you say, I'm just not technical enough to know how the system actually works... who assigns DOIs, how do we get them, then when we've got them where do we stick them? Danny, I am on the editorial team for a Journal (not primarily Biblical Studies, but general theological) we have begun making back issues available through Lulu. How in practice would we set about doing what you want.

I am thoroughly convinced by what you say, I’m just not technical enough to know how the system actually works… who assigns DOIs, how do we get them, then when we’ve got them where do we stick them?

]]> By: Ishmael http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/#comment-6802 Ishmael Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:05:04 +0000 http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/#comment-6802 Yep, it's frustrating but I, for one, sometimes turn green with envy to see you folks engaging a professional literature that stretches for thousands of years. With your blessings come also trials. Yep, it’s frustrating but I, for one, sometimes turn green with envy to see you folks engaging a professional literature that stretches for thousands of years.

With your blessings come also trials.

]]> By: Andy Keck http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/#comment-6801 Andy Keck Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:16:28 +0000 http://www.deinde.org/2008/03/18/my-beef-with-researching/#comment-6801 Although an active member of ATLA, I don't pretend to represent any kind of official response. However, I have done some exploration of DOIs for a new journal project and we found that DOI's cost money . A good many useful things in life do cost money but the cost of DOI may be a barrier for some publishers. But unless the DOI becomes ubiquitous, you will no way to know a given article is "undigitized" or simply lacking a DOI. Another approach which a number of libraries use (and which EBSCO, ATLA, and others support) is OpenURL. Rather than a DOI number which assigned to a specific article, a special link or OpenURL is created which contains the information (journal, title, page numbers, etc.) needed to find it in another database. Libraries then create a database of the electronic journals contained in different database products so that if you find an article in ATLA, you can click on the OpenURL resolver which will "know" that the article is in JSTOR (which your library subscribes to) and be able to pass that OpenURL to JSTOR to get you directly to the article. DOIs can be a part of OpenURLs but the system doesn't rely on each article having a DOI in order to accomplish much of what you desire. Although an active member of ATLA, I don’t pretend to represent any kind of official response. However, I have done some exploration of DOIs for a new journal project and we found that DOI’s cost money . A good many useful things in life do cost money but the cost of DOI may be a barrier for some publishers. But unless the DOI becomes ubiquitous, you will no way to know a given article is “undigitized” or simply lacking a DOI.

Another approach which a number of libraries use (and which EBSCO, ATLA, and others support) is OpenURL. Rather than a DOI number which assigned to a specific article, a special link or OpenURL is created which contains the information (journal, title, page numbers, etc.) needed to find it in another database. Libraries then create a database of the electronic journals contained in different database products so that if you find an article in ATLA, you can click on the OpenURL resolver which will “know” that the article is in JSTOR (which your library subscribes to) and be able to pass that OpenURL to JSTOR to get you directly to the article. DOIs can be a part of OpenURLs but the system doesn’t rely on each article having a DOI in order to accomplish much of what you desire.

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